GENOCIDE CROWDS ARE THE NEW KKK

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7 responses to “GENOCIDE CROWDS ARE THE NEW KKK”

1. 

   BOB

   November 16, 2008

   WHEN WILL YOU PEOPLE GET IT THROUGH YOUR BRAIN THAT THERE WAS A GENOCIDE…GENOCIDE SCHOLARS AGREE…ASK YOURSELVES WHERE DID THE ARMENIAN POPULATION OF 1915 DIASAPPEAR TO…DID THEY ALL MOVE, SELL THEIR HOMES? ADMIT WHAT HAPPENED AND LETS GET ON WITH IT…
2. 

   Ben

   November 19, 2008

   The article Ergun wrote revealed in a striking way the main point of the Armenian nongenocide:
   it’s in fact hate propaganda from the enemies of the Turks.
   In this propaganda the Turks are depicted as devils and evil people. And the Armenians are unarmed victims who don’t hurt anyone.

   But the facts are that the Armenians betrayed their country in the middle of a war.

   If it had been carried out during peace time, then the followers of the Armenian nongenocide had a point.
   But the measures had been taken in wartime. In such times states don’t hesitate to relocate mass of people which they suspect of treason and cooperating with the enemy.

   They even do this to PREVENT such a treason:
   Maybe heard of the relocation of 110,000 Japanese Americans of US to the interior of America after the attack of Japan at Pearl Harbor in 1941? This was done by a democratic country, in war time. US had nothing to fear. These Japanese Americans didn’t even shot a bullet and the attack had been about 3,000 miles from the mainland.

   And in a such frightened way acted the most powerful country of the world (in 1945 their nuclear bombs would devastate two cities).

   Compare that to the Ottoman Empire. It had more reason to fear its Armenian subjects.
   Tens of thousands of Armenians were engaged in a guerrilla war behind the war zone against their own state. Trying to weaken the war efforts of the Ottoman Empire so its enemies would have an easy task.
   You can read more about this dark site of the Armenians during war (press articles from that time):
   http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2007/09/1961-new-series-innocent-armenians.html

   Ergun also referred to the 1919 Nubar letter. Nubar was an Armenian leader. He wrote in that letter (summarized):
   ‘We fighted with 200,000 men at the side of the Allies, and we want our part of the Ottoman loot.’

   And Bob:
   The scholars you mention:
   Read in http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/cumulative.htm (‘GENOCIDE SCHOLARS’) who these scholars in fact are.
3. 

   reader

   December 14, 2008

   It is a mistake to assume that the only scholars who support the Genocide thesis are Armenian.

   Professor Donald Quataert of the State University of New York at Binghamton was one of the signers of the 1989 proclamation that the US Congres should not recognize the Genocide of the Armenians. Some say he was only one of four signers who might be classified as an Ottomanist. He reads Ottoman, a combination of Arabic, Farsi and old Turkish script. The demographer McCarthy, and the retired professor of politcal science Lewy do not.

   Neither an Armenian nor a Turk, his scholarship has evolved to recognize the mounting evidence of Genocide, a conclusion with which he now agrees.

   In his Colllege Text, “The Ottoman Empire 1700-1922” Cambridge University Press (2005) at page 187 he writes:

   “…[t]here is abundant evidence that low and high Ottoman officers, soldiers and bureaucrats – the very persons who had sworn responsibility to defend and protect the lives of Ottoman subjects regard;less of religion or ethnicity – murdered vast numbers of Armenian men, women and children alike. Moreover the pattern of killings were chillingly similar in the various areas, powerfully suggesting the presence of a coordinated program.

   I recommend you google his book to verify. Also, google his name to see how the Turkish ambassador asked him to renounce his Genocide conclusion imn the review of Bloxham’s book in 2006, lest he lose his position on a Turkish-funded group of scholars.
4. 

   KIRLIKOVALI

   December 15, 2008

   About Quataert, the term “AFATH” (Armenian Falsifiers and Turk-Haters) includes non-Armenian scholars, too.

   Anyone who ignores the 6 T’s of the Turkish-Armenian conflict to force a genocide conclusion, unsupported by historical evidence or a court verdict, is a member of the AFATH community.

   The 6 T’s:

   1- Tumult (rebellions)
   2- Terrorism
   3- Treason
   4- Territorial demands
   5-Turkish suffering
   6- Tereset
5. 

   American

   December 20, 2008

   HARDLYONE TO COMPLAIN OF RACISM

   It does not surprise that on a Turkish statist site, the anti-Armenian rhetoric is constant and harsh. It does surprise that Turkish Forum and other sites prominently feature the writings of Mr.Kirlikovali, whose writings are racist, pitiable and cowardly.

   Without shame he routinely misstaes what even Genocide Agnostic and denialist scholars say. For example, Lewis admitted that as many as 1,000,000. Armenians died; Ergun thinks the number is 50,000, and that those murdered died in what he calls “feuds”; he says here and elsewhere that Lewy “proved” there was no Genocide, while in fact, Lewy said the issue is unresolved, and he overlooks, as Lewy does not, that the vast majority of Armenians died while under Ottoman guard, thereby calling into question, as Lewy did, MCarthy’s thesis that these civilians died in a civil war.

   He almost-daily cites the 1985 scholar statement, overlooking that one of the four Ottomanists who signed it, Professor Quataert, has written in his 2000 and 2005 text, as well as the Bloxham book review, that the Armenians suffered Genocide. Even Lowry admitted that he saw a document from the Archives making him believe it was possible.

   None of this surprises. What does surprise is the daily drumbeat of racism. He has written recently that modern day Armenians cannot be trusted to serve honorably in the Armed forces of any nation, ignoring for example the honorable service of many scores of thousands of Armenian Americans, including four recipients of the Navy Cross, and the Congressional Medal of Honor. One doubts that Kirlikovali has worn any uniform, let alone a uniform in combat.

   It does surprise that he says “most” Armenians are “hateful”. Even a child could determine that is racism.

   Or his using the insulting term “Speedy Gonzalez” to describe a Mexican American journbalist, whom he chided, by also saying that the journalist should not do things as they are done in Tijuana. This is a record of racism pure and simple, and Americans see it as such.

   Do you want Turks to be seen in this way?

   And, he gives offense freely. When he called another poster a coward for not posting his name, which the poster said he would not do for fear of hacking, not assault, the poster challenged him to back up his insults with a refereed boxing match.

   No response from the otherwise garrulous Kirlikovali.

   This pitiable bully has fallen silent and run away, as all Bullies eventually do.

   Whatever some or even most Turks may think of the Diaspora, or Armenians, I can say that I have located no Armenian site with these kinds of racist and hateful comments about modern day Turks. If there was one. I would complain as loudly.

   What will you do about it?
6. 

   KIRLIKOVALI

   December 20, 2008

   All,

   This is the same cyber-stalker who likes leaving meningles, convoluted messages wherever I write. Just ignore him. Don’t waste you time on him. Thanks.
7. 

   Cem Ryan

   December 22, 2008

   FORGET ARMENIA, TURKS SHOULD CONDEMN AMERICAN INDIAN GENOCIDE

   Turkey is beset on all sides by the shock doctrine strategy of the west, and from within by its US-backed marionette government. Now the Armenian Genocide issue has once again bubbled to the surface. Apologize! Apologize! yell the so-called Turkish liberals, egos stroked and, no doubt, palms greased by their western puppeteers. It’s the same old drama with the same stodgy cast burbling the same trite lines. As usual, the government does nothing, thus contributing to the confusion, apathy, and fear that stalk the land. But that’s the whole idea isn’t it?

   Turkish people, instead of handwringing and moaning, ACT! Turkish people, you heirs of the Atatürk Revolution, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk gave you the right (and responsibility) to save your country. (http://yunus.hacettepe.edu.tr/~sadi/dizeler/hitabe2.html ) Fight the rush-to-judgment efforts of the Armenian Genocide lobby. Every “Turkish child of future generations” should demand that their parliament immediately enact a resolution that condemns the American Indian Genocide. Turkish people…ACT! Defend your country against the dark powers that Mustafa Kemal Atatürk foresaw over eighty years ago. The facts of the catastrophe done to the American Indians are in plain sight and beyond dispute. Spain, Portugal, England, and, most importantly, the United States of America should stand condemned in the eyes of the world for the crimes committed against the aboriginal population in the Americas.

   Upwards of 200 million Indians lost their lives on the combined North, Central, and South American continents after Columbus landed in 1492. The Indians in South and Central America were mostly enslaved to extract precious metals. The Indians in North America were displaced, starved, and slaughtered to make way for the enormous flow of European immigrants. Vast numbers died from European diseases, perhaps the first weapon of mass destruction, in this case, biological warfare. Surely Turkey has the right to defend itself from the Western claims of genocide, given the historically bloody hand of the West.

   From approximately 15-18 million North American Indians present in the days of Columbus, only 190,000 were left in the territorial United States in 1890. The destruction of the Southern Indians (the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, and Creek tribes) resulted in the seizure and clearance of their enormously fertile forest lands (the Southern black belt) in order to expand both slavery and cotton production in Arkansas, Alabama, and Mississippi. In this manner, the red and black races were displaced, enslaved, and murdered in order for white America to prosper. The proof of this assertion is fully documented and unassailable.

   Turkey has welcomed the persecuted minorities of many nations. The same year that the destruction of the American Indians began, 1492, Turkey’s Sultan Bayezit II accepted the Jews expelled from Spain and Portugal. Similar compassion was render to Jews centuries who fled Hitler’s genocide. Surely Turkey has the right, the responsibility, and moral authority to counter the orchestrated, poorly documented, rush-to-judgment of the Armenian Lobby and its collaborators, both western and Turkish.

   The horrific destruction of the sophisticated Native American cultural system was encouraged by the government of the United States, particularly under the administration of that so-called champion of so-called democracy, Andrew Jackson. By 1890, the American Indians were finished. Their numbers had been reduced by 98 percent over the 400 years since Columbus landed. By 1890 the United States government had seized 98 percent of their land. No greater genocide or land grab has existed in the history of the world. Surely Turkey has the right to challenge the unproven claim of so-called genocide by affirming through parliamentary resolution the well-documented genocide of an entire race of people by an act of policy by the government of the United States of America.

   It is high time that Turkey takes the offensive on the matter of genocide. In this day of widespread destruction, it is high time to remind America, Americans, and their government, that they are up to their ancestral elbows in the blood of the American Indians. The Turkish government must condemn the American Indian Genocide, or itself be condemned. And if you, the Turkish people, think that makes you a traitor, then read again Nazım Hikmet’s magnificent poem, Vatan Haini (“Traitor”) below, along with Atatürk’s statement of your “primary duty.”

   Cem Ryan, Ph.D.
   Istanbul
   21 December 2008
   http://forreasonsunknown-cem.blogspot.com/

   TRAITOR
   “Nazim Hikmet is still continuing to be a traitor,
   We are a half-colony of American imperialism,” said Hikmet.
   “Nazim Hikmet is still continuing to be a traitor.”
   This came out in one of the Ankara newspapers,
   Over three columns, in a pitch-black screaming streamer.
   In an Ankara newspaper, beside a photograph of Admiral Williamson,
   smiling in 66 square centimeters, his mouth in his ears,
   the American admiral.
   America gave 120 million lira to our budget, 120 million lira.
   “We are a half-colony of American imperialism, said Hikmet.
   Nazim Hikmet is still continuing to be a traitor.”

   Yes, I am a traitor, if you are a patriot, if you are a defender of our homeland,
   I am a traitor to my homeland, I am a traitor to my country.
   If patriotism is your farms,
   if the valuables in your safes and your bank accounts is patriotism,
   if patriotism is dying from hunger by the side of the road,
   if patriotism is trembling in the cold like a cur and shivering from malaria in the summer,
   if sucking our scarlet blood in your factories is patriotism,
   if patriotism is the claws of your village lords,
   if patriotism is the catechism, if patriotism is the police club,
   if your allocations and your salaries are patriotism,
   if patriotism is American bases, American bombs, and American missiles,
   if patriotism is not escaping from our stinking black-minded ignorance,
   then I am a traitor.
   Write it over three columns, in a pitch-black screaming streamer,
   Nazim Hikmet is continuing to be a traitor, STILL!

   Nazim Hikmet
   28 July 1962)

   (Translation: Hüda Cereb and James Ryan, June 1, 2005)

   http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_30693

   ATATÜRK’S SPEECH TO TURKISH YOUTH
   O Turkish Youth! Your first duty is ever to preserve and defend the national independence, the Turkish Republic.

   That is the sole foundation of your existence and your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure. In the future, too, there will be ill-will, both in the country itself and abroad, which will try to tear this treasure from you. If one day you are compelled to defend your independence and the Republic, then, in order to fulfill your duty, you will have to look beyond the possibilities and conditions in which you might find yourself. It may be that these conditions and possibilities are altogether unfavorable. It may be that the enemies who desire to destroy your independence and your Republic represent the strongest force that the earth has ever seen; that they have through craft and force, taken possession of all the fortresses and arsenals of the homeland; that all its armies are scattered and the country actually and completely occupied.
   Assuming, in order to look still darker possibilities in the face, that those who hold the power of Government within the country have fallen into error, that they are fools or traitors, yes, even that these leading persons may identify their personal interests with the enemy’s political goals, it might happen that the nation came into complete privation, into the most extreme distress; that it found itself in a condition of ruin and complete exhaustion.

   Even under those circumstances, O Turkish child of future generations, it is your duty to save the independence of the Turkish Republic.

   The strength that you will need for this is mighty in the noble blood which flows in your veins.

   Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
   From“The Great Speech”
   20 October 1927

   http://yunus.hacettepe.edu.tr/~sadi/dizeler/hitabe2.html