{"id":70863,"date":"2013-07-05T23:54:24","date_gmt":"2013-07-05T20:54:24","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/?p=70863"},"modified":"2023-07-26T11:44:02","modified_gmt":"2023-07-26T08:44:02","slug":"dancing-in-the-rain-and-dying-in-pakistan-two-teenage-girls-and-their-mother-killed-for-dancing-during-sudden-downpour","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/2013\/07\/05\/dancing-in-the-rain-and-dying-in-pakistan-two-teenage-girls-and-their-mother-killed-for-dancing-during-sudden-downpour\/","title":{"rendered":"Dancing In The Rain and Dying In Pakistan: Two Teenage Girls And Their Mother Killed For Dancing During Sudden Downpour"},"content":{"rendered":"
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JONATHAN TURLEY<\/h1>\n

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\"pakistansisters_400_18t1mfo-18t1mfr\"Noor Basra, 16, and Noor Sheza, 15, and their mother were delighted to have rain in their area of Northern Pakistan recently. Two teenage sisters began to dance in the rain and a video was shown of them dancing in traditional dress with younger children. Local men saw the video and proceeded to kill the girls and their mother in an \u201chonor killing.\u201d Police have detained their step brother as part of the murder plot.<\/p>\n

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\nThe police stated that the \u201ctwo girls have been murdered after they were accused of tarnishing their family\u2019s name by making a video of themselves dancing in the rain.\u201d The video produced outrage among Muslim clerics and followers in the village as an affront to Islam.<\/p>\n

\"220px-Singin_Rain\"It is yet another tragedy that shows the plight of women in many Islamic areas as well as the cultural divide between this country and some of our Muslim allies. What Gene Kelly and millions of Americans see as an act of release and joy, these locals viewed as a death-penalty offense.<\/p>\n

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Like this:<\/h3>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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20<\/span> Responses to \u201cDancing In The Rain and Dying In Pakistan: Two Teenage Girls And Their Mother Killed For Dancing During Sudden\u00a0Downpour\u201d<\/h4>\n
Feed for this Entry<\/span> Trackback Address<\/span><\/div>\n
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  1. \n
    voltaic<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 8:42 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Psychotics. Same disturbed mindset as Son of Sam or Jim Jones. But murdering innocents in \u201cGod\u2019s\u201d name isn\u2019t just for Muslims anymore. Inhuman US drone strikes that kill children are just a different form of the same type of senseless murders, except it\u2019s for an American \u201cGod\u201d.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  2. \n
    DisgustedonEastBroadway<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 9:13 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Their \u201dAllah\u201d is a real piece of DRECK!!! I believe it\u2019s time to arm the women of Pakistan with machine guns\u2026. for a little self-defence!!! The men of Pakistan must have really tiny penises\u2026 to have to exert such control\u2026<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  3. \n
    Bron<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 10:12 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    when are decent Muslims going to put a stop to this? When in the name of Allah are you going to kill these animals who do this?<\/p>\n

    Enough, enough already.<\/p>\n

    3 happy souls destroyed for expressing their delight in just being alive. There is no way the God who gives us life would not want us to celebrate being alive.<\/p>\n

    I want to cry.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  4. \n
    Jean<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 10:43 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Reply to Bron\u2026 I\u2019m crying with you. Everyday I just sit and shake my head with down right horror at what is going on around me!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  5. \n
    nick spinelli<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 11:05 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    I\u2019m w\/ Bron. I have seen a lot of violence and the results of it. But, reading these continuing accounts is stomach turning.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  6. \n
    Justice Holmes<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 11:27 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Sad so very sad. Unfortunately we have many political leaders and \u201creligious\u201d leaders in this country who are also willing to sacrifice women\u2019s lives for their political power. Men need to speak up in every country about the ways in which men and governments are suppressing and abusing women.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  7. \n
    Dredd<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 12:25 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Karl Marx said something to the effect that \u201creligion is the opiate of the people.\u201d<\/p>\n

    Opiates can cause hallucinations.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  8. \n
    DisgustedonEastBroadway<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 1:11 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Celebration of the Human Spirit\u2026\u2026\u2026.. Not allowed in the Sh*t Religion, Islam\u2026. and don\u2019t you forget it! Damn-it!!!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  9. \n
    Michael Beaton<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 1:43 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    test post\u2026<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  10. \n
    Michael Beaton<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 1:57 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    This v.sad event is driven by a very toxic fundamentalism. It is horrible, and there is no way to express hyperbole at how backward, stupid, wrong, and wrong headed and tragic this event is. Among the sorrowful things about this is that this is just the one we have heard about. There are many more we don\u2019t hear about, because this is not simply an event by some fringe this is the way this culture is organized. Fundamentally.<\/p>\n

    A few thoughts on the comments so far, and then I want to turn the attention closer to home and our own fundamentalists, and isms.<\/p>\n

    > I appreciate the sentiment to \u201carm the women with machine guns\u2026\u201d. It is addressing the problem at the same level as the problem, and thus is no solution at all.
    \nDo recall that it is not so very long ago that America constitutionally did not allow its women to vote. And times before that in the Puritan era would not be so different from this one. They may not have been killed for dancing but flogged and likely outcast.
    \nMy point is that we have the seeds of the same virulent stream of religion based, fundamentalism in our DNA.<\/p>\n

    > @Disgusted\u2026 makes the point about celebration of the human spirit is not allowed in the Islamic religion. To the degree this is true, and I am not certain it is \u2013 Take a look at the poetry of Rumi or Hafez \u2013 it is as true of our own national religion of Christianity. It comes down to making distinctions. And this discussion that involves broad-brushing an entire sixth of the worlds population what claim Islam as their faith with this level of invective needs some distinction. Otherwise it is just bellicose, self righteous, behavior worthy only of our own demagogues.<\/p>\n

    > As to religion and opiates : I\u2019d like to suggest that religions take many forms. How many people are killed and maimed, not to mention having their lives destroyed, in the service of our own, supposedly god-free, capitalistic religion? Especially its \u201cglobal\u201d strain. Many.
    \nSo while being properly horrified at this event, I think if we could somehow gain a commensurate sense of horror and outrage at what our economic \u201creligion\u201d does to people on a daily basis, and far worse in many cases, that would be a good thing.
    \n(Shall we arm the people so abused with machine guns?)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  11. \n
    Bron<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 3:22 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Michael Beaton:<\/p>\n

    The poets you speak of wrote 800 years ago. The Rubyiat is also very life affirming. But so what? Islam has always been mystical even if there were a handful of thinkers who were not. They lost in the end in any event and what is left is what we are appalled by on an almost daily basis.<\/p>\n

    In the count of bodies based on economic systems, Marxism\/Socialism is still in the lead by at least 150 million souls destroyed. In fact I imagine the favored economy of Islam is probably Marxism\/socialism.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  12. \n
    Dredd<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 3:47 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    The survivors of that family should move to Egypt.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  13. \n
    Gene H.<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 3:53 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Note to Mr. Kelly: Avoid Pakistan. Even though you\u2019re already dead.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  14. \n
    BarkinDog<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 4:00 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Land locked Pirate Territories are worse than those that have some coastline. Pakistan is pure Pirate Territory with a semblance of government. Do not go there by land and if you must fly over please flush twice. We need this nation to adopt the BarkinDog Doctrine, which is to identify Pure Pirate Territories, Marginal Pirate Territories, Police States, Free Civilized Nations. The U.S. should not trade with, allow emigrants, or give or loan money to the first three categories.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  15. \n
    BarkinDog<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 2, 2013 at 4:02 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Oh, and you never pay a ransom and you kill pirates the same day or hour in which you catch one. Insurance companies which pay ransoms for ships should be fined and put out of business. If a ship is taken and then taken into a port in Yemen, Somalia, et al a navy has the right to go take it immediately and kill anyone who interferes. If the pirates harm the hostages then eliminate the port with air strikes.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  16. \n
    Michael Beaton<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 3, 2013 at 2:57 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    Bron,
    \nFair points, and we are not really disagreeing so much as pointing out different angles\u2026maybe.
    \nThere is much appalling, as you say. However I continue to think that it is important to make distinctions. It is not all Muslims as individuals that do these daily appalling things. As many have pointed out in other situations most Muslims are not violent. And I know that from personal experience. It just isnt fair nor right to not be clear on this point.<\/p>\n

    As to the Marxist economies and the 150mil figure cited. Not sure what that has to do with anything\u2026But to follow the point\u2026It seems your statement conflates systems and historical points. Just to make some distinction between Marxism as an economic philosophy and the political systems that adopted very twisted forms of it for their purposes.. It was not the economic theory that created the rational for the killing, but the political powers et al.<\/p>\n

    But if you must go there, I\u2019ll suggest that in your tally you add the ravages of capitalistic governments upon the world. While not so dramatic perhaps as your total, the number is still respectable and has the additional benefit of including the destabilization of entire nations. Be sure to count the British in your history. And add the USA actions in Iran 1952, Chile, Guatemala, and etc. The consequences of these events (killings) reverberate to today. Including such events as the Iraq War.<\/p>\n

    Just say\u2019n. There are not many clean actors when you start doing body counts.<\/p>\n

    And then to go completely off topic, you could add the ravages that is Climate Change to the list\u2026 A condition completely created as a by product of the industrial age \u2013 a completely Capitalistic enterprise \u2013 and presently sustaining the well known conditions to perpetuate the problem while those same \u201ccapitalistic\u201d institutions work tirelessly to prohibit any systemic change that might make a difference.<\/p>\n

    If you must put it in the crass\/broad terms of Capitalism vs Marxism, I\u2019ll think in the end Capitalism will win the battle of body counts.<\/p>\n

    \u2014\u2013
    \nWhen I wrote the post above this morning, the posting system would not take all of my post. The balance is after this one. In that post I posit the point that that it is the Fundamentalist faction of nearly any system that gains power that, in the end, does the death dealing. Whether to nameable individuals as in this original article, or the nameless millions.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  17. \n
    Michael Beaton<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 3, 2013 at 2:59 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    The text of this post was meant to follow the post above time stamped 1:57.
    \n\u2014-
    \nI want to point that even on this blog today, a few posts up , there is a report about our own fundamentalists reveling in the death of the firefighters. ( I think in self righteous delight \u2013 I think it encourages them and at some level makes them happy when people die and they can ascribe it to the wrath of \u201ctheir\u201d god.) What really is different in these two stories but the details?
    \nAnd if you think there are differences I propose a thought experiment\u2026lets say we did not have separation of church and state, the men like Roberson et al had power not only to express their bile, but enforce it with deathly power\u2026 Do you think they would hesitate? or that it would be any different?
    \nThe differences between our fundamentalists and theirs in the Muslim world is simply a matter of context and opportunity. Not a moral difference.<\/p>\n

    This being a legal blog it is worth underlining the reason for the difference in our social norms is due to the underlying predicates in each nation. America is built on a substrate of humanism, and in that context has tolerance for a range of ideas and humanity as enshrined in the Bill of Rights. The Muslim, and other fundamentalist regions, are founded on something altogether different.<\/p>\n

    Far to complex to fully elucidate in this post of course, still I think it is not too much to say that religion based societies are predicated upon a notion of \u201cThis is the Truth\u201d. This is the essential form of all fundamentalism\u2019s: they have the Truth, and therefore anything that is not in keeping with that Truth is a lie. And further, that lie has to be eradicated and anything that is not the truth has to be suppressed.<\/p>\n

    Like dancing in the Rain.<\/p>\n

    Looking at it like this I suggest it is not Muslims per se, but other forces and beliefs in play\u2026 And that while we express our outrage and horror, we should also be aware of our own fundamentalists \u2013 both in the pulpit and in the corner offices of Wall Street, and on the radio\u2026 And reserve some of our outrage for the tragedies and horrors they inflict, here, and abroad.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  18. \n
    \"\" Amy Alkon (@amyalkon)<\/span><\/span> <\/span> 1, July 3, 2013 at 8:48 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    \u201cThere is a report about our own fundamentalists reveling in the death of the firefighters\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n

    They didn\u2019t murder them and the Christian religion, as far as I understand it, doesn\u2019t call for the death or conversion of \u201cthe infidel,\u201d as Islam does.<\/p>\n

    Under Islam, a woman also is considered property and worth far less than a man. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  19. \n
    Anonymously Yours<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 3, 2013 at 9:51 am <\/small><\/p>\n
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    And God kills Homos\u2026? My question is\u2026 Who\u2019s god, what god\u2026.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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  20. \n
    Michael Beaton<\/span> <\/span> 1, July 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm <\/small><\/p>\n
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    @Amy<\/p>\n

    \u201cThere is a report about our own fundamentalists reveling in the death of the firefighters\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n

    They didn\u2019t murder them and the Christian religion, as far as I understand it, doesn\u2019t call for the death or conversion of \u201cthe infidel,\u201d as Islam does.<\/p>\n

    Under Islam, a woman also is considered property and worth far less than a man.
    \n\u2014-
    \nPart of the \u201cproblem\u201d when analyzing events like this, and especially when attempting to compare larger contexts like Christianity \u2013 Muslim is that there is a time shift.
    \nIn \u201cmodern\u201d America\/West we are so infused with a humanist ethos that derives from the Enlightenment era that it is hard to realize how much of our modern Christian ethos is affected by it.
    \nI think we have to look back to a time when Christianity had the same position in society as Islam has today. In those times the points you raise about women, and decrees of death for not being of the faith was the norm.<\/p>\n

    My point, or at least proposition is that what we despise and recoil at in \u201cthem\u201d is also with us in our own fundamentalists. The essential difference being we have a state that is a little further down the road in terms of humanist values, rather than being a society governed by religious institutions. And our fundamentalists don\u2019t have the power to enforce their brand of righteousness. But I think they would if they could.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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    Leave a Reply<\/h3>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    JONATHAN TURLEY Noor Basra, 16, and Noor Sheza, 15, and their mother were delighted to have rain in their area of Northern Pakistan recently. Two teenage sisters began to dance in the rain and a video was shown of them dancing in traditional dress with younger children. Local men saw the video and proceeded to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":83,"featured_media":71790,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[89],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-70863","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-turkey"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/70863","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/83"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=70863"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/70863\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/71790"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=70863"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=70863"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=70863"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}