{"id":18122,"date":"2010-03-30T09:11:50","date_gmt":"2010-03-30T07:11:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.turkishforum.com.tr\/en\/content\/?p=18122"},"modified":"2023-04-05T00:14:50","modified_gmt":"2023-04-04T21:14:50","slug":"bad-things-happen-when-empires-fall-apart-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/2010\/03\/30\/bad-things-happen-when-empires-fall-apart-3\/","title":{"rendered":"Bad things happen when empires fall apart"},"content":{"rendered":"<h1><\/h1>\n<h2>Harking back to Armenia in 1915 will only drive  modern Turkey into China\u2019s arms<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Norman Stone <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The Times<\/p>\n<p>March 8, 2010<\/p>\n<p>The best  thing said about the Armenian tragedy was a sermon delivered in the main church  in Constantinople in 1894, more than 20 years before it happened. Patriarch  Ashikyan had this to say: \u201cWe have lived with the Turks for a thousand years,  have greatly flourished, are nowhere in this empire in a majority of the  population. If the nationalists go on like this [they had started a terrorist  campaign] they will ruin the nation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That  Patriarch was quite right, and the nationalists shot him (and many other  notables who were saying the same thing).<\/p>\n<p>Now a US  Congressional committee has had its say, by voting to recognise as \u201cgenocide\u201d  the mass killing of Armenians by Turkish forces that began in 1915, during the  First World War.<\/p>\n<p>Is the  committee right? When the First World War broke out there were Armenian  uprisings and the Patriarch\u2019s fears were realised. The population in much of the  territory of today\u2019s Turkey was deported in cruel circumstances that led to much  murder and pillage.<\/p>\n<p>But genocide? No, if by that you mean  the sort of thing Hitler did. The Armenian leader was offered a job in the  government in October 1914 to sort things out (he refused on the ground that his  Turkish was not up to it). The Turks themselves put 1,600 men on trial for what  had happened and executed a governor. The British had the run of the Turkish  archives for four years after 1918 and failed to find incriminating documents.  Armenians in the main cities were not touched. Documents did indeed turn up in  1920, but they turned out to be preposterous forgeries, written on the  stationery of a French school.<\/p>\n<p>You cannot really describe this as  genocide. Horrors, of course, happened but these same horrors were visited upon  millions of Muslims (and Jews) as the Ottoman Empire receded in the Caucasus and  the Balkans. Half of its urban population came from those regions and, in many  cases, the disasters of their families occurred at Armenian hands.<\/p>\n<p>Diasporas  jump up and down in the politics of the United States \u2014 as an American friend  says of them, when they cross the Atlantic, they do not change country, they  change planet.<\/p>\n<p><em>Braveheart<\/em> is, for the Scottish me, a dreadful  embarrassment. I have to explain to Kurdish taxi drivers that the whole film is  wicked tosh that just causes idiots in Edinburgh to paint their faces and to  hate the English, whereas there cannot be a single family in Scotland that does  not have cousins in England.<\/p>\n<p>But what  will be the effect of the resolution in Turkey? The answer is that it will be  entirely counterproductive. Yes, the end of the Ottoman Empire was a terrible  time, as the end of empires generally are: take the Punjab in 1947, for  instance.<\/p>\n<p>Disease,  starvation and massacre carried off a third of the population of eastern Turkey,  regardless of their origin. But of all the states that succeeded the Ottoman  Empire, Turkey is by far the most successful; you just have to look at its vital  statistics to see as much, starting with male life expectancy which not so long  ago was a decade longer than Russia\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>Turkey is  in the unusual position of doing rather well. She has survived the financial  mess, her banks having had a drubbing some years before, and exports are  humming. The Turks are not quite used to this, and this shows with the present  Government, which (as the Prime Minister\u2019s unfortunate anti-Israeli outburst at  Davos a year ago showed) can on occasion be triumphalist.<\/p>\n<p>This  Government has been remarkably successful, not least in getting rid of the  preposterous currency inflation that made tourists laugh, but it should not be  allowed to forget the bases of Turkey\u2019s emergence: the strength of the Western  connection, the link with the IMF, the presence in the West of tens of thousands  of Turkish students, many of them very able.<\/p>\n<p>However,  every Turk knows that, during the First World War, horrible things happened, and  for Congress to single out the Armenians is regarded in Turkey simply as an  insult.<\/p>\n<p>The Turkish  media is full of tales about the resolution, and there has been a great deal of  dark muttering about it. There are Turks who agree that the killings amounted to  genocide, and there has been an uncomfortable book, Fuat Dundar\u2019s  <em>The Code of Modern  Turkey<\/em>, as some of the government at  the time did indeed think of ethnic homogeneity (though not the killing of  children).<\/p>\n<p>But the  dominant tone is more or less of contempt: who are these people, to orate about  events a century ago in a country that most of them could not find on the map?  It all joins with resentment at US doings in Iraq, and in the popular mind gets  confused with the Swiss vote against minarets or Europe\u2019s ridiculous admission  of Greek Cyprus to their Union.<\/p>\n<p>In practice  the Turks are being alienated, and will be encouraged to think that the West is  doing another version of the Crusades, that \u201cthe only friend of the Turk is the  Turk\u201d, and other nationalist nonsense of a similar sort. Nowadays Turkey does  not need the Western link as before: trade and investment have been switching  towards Russia and Central Asia; the Chinese are quite active in Ankara. Is that  what we want to achieve, in a country that is otherwise the best advertisement  for the West that anyone could have imagined back in 1950?<\/p>\n<p><em>Norman  Stone is Professor Emeritus of Modern History at the University of Oxford and  head of the Russian-Turkish Institute at Bilkent University,  Ankara<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>============================================================<\/em><\/p>\n<h1 id=\"firstHeading\">Norman Stone<\/h1>\n<h3 id=\"siteSub\">Vikipedi, \u00f6zg\u00fcr ansiklopedi<\/h3>\n<div id=\"jump-to-nav\">Git ve: kullan, ara<\/div>\n<p><!-- start content --><strong>Prof. Dr. Norman Stone<\/strong> (d. 1941 Glasgow,  \u0130sko\u00e7ya) Yak\u0131n\u00e7a\u011f&#8217;da Orta ve Do\u011fu Avrupa tarihi  konular\u0131nda uzman \u0130sko\u00e7 tarih\u00e7idir.<\/p>\n<p>Babas\u0131n\u0131n sava\u015fta \u00f6lmesi \u00fczerine Glasgow Academy&#8217;ye burslu olarak  kabul edildi.<sup id=\"cite_ref-millard07_0-0\">[1]<\/sup> 1959-1962 y\u0131llar\u0131 aras\u0131nda Cambridge&#8217;de okuyan  Stone, master \u00e7al\u0131\u015flmas\u0131n\u0131 1962-65 y\u0131llar\u0131nda Viyana ve Budape\u015fte\u2019de,  Orta Avrupa Tarihi \u00fczerine yapt\u0131. 1965\u2019ten itibaren Cambridge&#8217;de Rus ve  Alman Tarihi okutmanl\u0131k yapt\u0131ktan sonra Trinity College&#8217;de \u00e7al\u0131\u015ft\u0131.  1984&#8217;te Oxford&#8217;da Modern Tarih profes\u00f6r\u00fc oldu. 1984-1997 y\u0131llar\u0131 aras\u0131da  Oxford \u00dcniversitesi&#8217;nde yak\u0131n\u00e7a\u011f tarihi  konusunda profes\u00f6r olarak ders verdi. Daha sonra Bilkent \u00dcniversitesi&#8217;nde g\u00f6rev yapt\u0131.  Hala Bilkent \u00dcniversitesi&#8217;nde g\u00f6reve devam etmektedir.<\/p>\n<p>Norman Stone&#8217;un Wolfson \u00d6d\u00fcl\u00fc\u2019ne lay\u0131k g\u00f6r\u00fclen The Eastern Front  1914-1917 (1975) d\u0131\u015f\u0131nndaki eserleri: &#8220;Hitler&#8221; (1980), &#8220;Europe  Transformed 1878-1919&#8221; (1983) ve &#8220;The Atlantic Revival 1970-1990&#8221;  say\u0131labilir. Norman Stone&#8217;un bilimsel \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131n\u0131n odak noktas\u0131n\u0131,  ge\u00e7mi\u015f ve g\u00fcn\u00fcm\u00fczdeki Rus-T\u00fcrk ili\u015fkileri olu\u015fturmaktad\u0131r.<\/p>\n<p>1985&#8217;e kadar Britanya bas\u0131n\u0131nda s\u00fcrekli yorumlarda bulundu. Ayn\u0131  zamanda Frankfurter  Allgemeine Zeitung ve The Wall Street Journal gazetelerinde yazd\u0131.  1987-1992 y\u0131llar\u0131 aras\u0131nda <span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/tr.wikipedia.org\/w\/index.php?title=The_Sunday_Times&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\">The Sunday  Times<\/span> gazetesinde d\u00fczenli k\u00f6\u015fe yazar\u0131 olarak makaleler yazd\u0131.  1987-1990 y\u0131llar\u0131 aras\u0131nda \u0130ngiltere Ba\u015fbakan\u0131 Margaret Thatcher\u2019a d\u0131\u015f politika dan\u0131\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 yapt\u0131.<\/p>\n<p>Norman Stone; Almanca, Rus\u00e7a, Macarca, Leh\u00e7e, Frans\u0131zca ve T\u00fcrk\u00e7e  biliyor. Stone,<sup id=\"cite_ref-1\">[2]<\/sup> ya\u015fam\u0131n\u0131 T\u00fcrkiye ile \u0130ngiltere aras\u0131nda ge\u00e7irmektedir.<\/p>\n<h2>Yay\u0131mlanm\u0131\u015f  eserleri<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><em>The Eastern Front, 1914-1917<\/em> (1975), ISBN 0-340-12874-7<\/li>\n<li><em>Hitler<\/em> (1980), ISBN 0-340-24980-3<\/li>\n<li><em>Europe Transformed, 1878-1919<\/em> (1983), ISBN 0-00-634262-0; 2nd ed.  (1999), ISBN 0-631-21507-7<\/li>\n<li><em>Czechoslovakia: Crossroads and Crises, 1918-88<\/em> (1989), ISBN 0-333-48507-6<\/li>\n<li><em>The Times Atlas of World History<\/em> (1989), ISBN 0-7230-0304-1 (ed.)<\/li>\n<li><em>The Other Russia<\/em> (1990), ISBN 0-571-13574-9, Michael Glenny ile<\/li>\n<li><em>World War One: A Short History<\/em> (2007), ISBN: 1846140137 Allan Lane<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Referanslar<\/h2>\n<div>\n<ol>\n<li id=\"cite_note-millard07-0\"><strong>^<\/strong> Millard, Rosie (5 August 2007) <span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/entertainment.timesonline.co.uk\/tol\/arts_and_entertainment\/books\/article2198091.ece\">Britain\u2019s a terrible bore, that\u2019s  why I left<\/span>, <em>The Times<\/em>.<\/li>\n<li id=\"cite_note-1\"><strong>^<\/strong> <span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/property.timesonline.co.uk\/tol\/life_and_style\/property\/overseas\/article1147565.ece\">Turkish delights<\/span>, <em>The  Times<\/em>.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/div>\n<h2>D\u0131\u015f  ba\u011flant\u0131lar<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>Russia &#8211; Getting Too Strong for  Germany<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Harking back to Armenia in 1915 will only drive modern Turkey into China\u2019s arms Norman Stone The Times March 8, 2010 The best thing said about the Armenian tragedy was a sermon delivered in the main church in Constantinople in 1894, more than 20 years before it happened. Patriarch Ashikyan had this to say: \u201cWe [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":83,"featured_media":783398,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[7],"tags":[1571,78,151,120,204,1153,1018,2129],"class_list":["post-18122","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-armenian-question","tag-ahmet-davutoglu","tag-ergenekon","tag-genocide","tag-gulen","tag-nagorno-karabakh","tag-politics","tag-recep-tayyip-erdogan","tag-turkey-and-armenia"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18122","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/83"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=18122"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18122\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/783398"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=18122"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=18122"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=18122"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}