{"id":14540,"date":"2009-09-02T17:07:21","date_gmt":"2009-09-02T15:07:21","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.turkishforum.com.tr\/en\/content\/?p=14540"},"modified":"2014-01-05T17:24:53","modified_gmt":"2014-01-05T15:24:53","slug":"the-fener-greek-patriarchate-universal-or-national","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/2009\/09\/02\/the-fener-greek-patriarchate-universal-or-national\/","title":{"rendered":"The Fener Greek Patriarchate Universal or National?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><!--  --><\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" style=\"margin: 3px; padding: 0px;\" title=\"http:\/\/www.bolcasohbet.net\/fener-rum-patrikhanesi\/\" src=\"http:\/\/www.google.com\/images?q=tbn:7O6lSVFdRqxfVM::www.bolcasohbet.net\/resimler\/fener-rum-patrikhanesi.jpg&amp;h=78&amp;w=111&amp;usg=__Ap-YEiHKLXVR-QVyPkqCsdfXW1k=\" border=\"1\" alt=\"http:\/\/www.bolcasohbet.net\/fener-rum-patrikhanesi\/\" width=\"111\" height=\"78\" align=\"middle\" \/><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" style=\"margin: 3px; padding: 0px;\" title=\"http:\/\/www.yenidenergenekon.com\/248-fener-rum-patrikhanesi-ve-ekumeniklik-meselesi\/\" src=\"http:\/\/www.google.com\/images?q=tbn:kNe5xxOZdmBN6M::www.yenidenergenekon.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2008\/05\/image00175.jpg&amp;h=78&amp;w=52&amp;usg=__bFNnq91seUSnb4bacn3IWoILnG4=\" border=\"1\" alt=\"http:\/\/www.yenidenergenekon.com\/248-fener-rum-patrikhanesi-ve-ekumeniklik-meselesi\/\" width=\"52\" height=\"78\" align=\"middle\" \/><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" style=\"margin: 3px; padding: 0px;\" title=\"http:\/\/www.timeturk.com\/news_detail.php?id=16769\" src=\"http:\/\/www.google.com\/images?q=tbn:z3-hxXYwvk2nxM::www.timeturk.com\/images\/news\/14574.jpg&amp;h=78&amp;w=77&amp;usg=__cboWTKx8amYV-K45Gu4dgP8s3n4=\" border=\"1\" alt=\"http:\/\/www.timeturk.com\/news_detail.php?id=16769\" width=\"77\" height=\"78\" align=\"middle\" \/><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" style=\"margin: 3px; padding: 0px;\" title=\"http:\/\/gundemonline.wordpress.com\/category\/fener-rum-patrikhanesi\/\" src=\"http:\/\/www.google.com\/images?q=tbn:clpTAt1plrJrgM::resim.hunturk.com\/rsm\/f334ab3ded.jpg&amp;h=78&amp;w=119&amp;usg=__NSEm_iaGMeM77UfGMYSveHjCr8U=\" border=\"1\" alt=\"http:\/\/gundemonline.wordpress.com\/category\/fener-rum-patrikhanesi\/\" width=\"119\" height=\"78\" align=\"middle\" \/><\/p>\n<p>The  basic mistake made when there is an unsolved problem or when a problem is left  hanging, is going around the problem itself without trying to go down its  essence and thus to the real answers. To put in other words the basic mistake is  the inability to focus on the efforts to find the &#8220;right answers&#8221; to the &#8220;right  questions&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>One can  find the traces of such mistakes during the process of finding a solution to the  problems arising from The Fener Greek Patriarchate.<\/p>\n<p>These  problems primarily arise from ecumenical claims and the demand that Turkey  should recognize this claim.<\/p>\n<p>In the  text of the Lausanne Treaty, which is regarded as the fundamental treaty of the  Turkish Republic, there is no mention of the Patriarchate. In Lausanne,  political and administrative privileges given to the Patriarchate during the  Ottoman period were lifted and it was agreed that it only had spiritual  authority. Other than that it is not stated in the text whether it has any  authority outside the Turkish borders or any ecumenic  title..<\/p>\n<p>Ecumenism is a problem which  essentially concerns &#8220;church laws and tradition&#8221;. Therefore it is out of the  question that the Turkish Republic accepts the ecumenism of the Fener Greek  Patriarchate.<\/p>\n<p>What is  more is that the claims of ecumenism &#8220;theologically&#8221; have <strong>a grave moral  flaw:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong> <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Vatican, 1600 years later,  had abandoned its principles of faith regarding that the churches except those  in Rome, Antakya and Alexandria, which are defined in the Iznik Clerical Council  in 325, could not be regarded as ecumenic.<\/p>\n<p>Thus,  the claim that the Church in Istanbul was founded by St. Andrew, the first  apostle of Jesus Christ, was accepted behind the scenes by Vatican, yet under  the guarantee of &#8220;the infallibility of the Pope&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>However,  until November 30<sup>th<\/sup> 2008 it was claimed that the Fener Greek  Patriarchate was promoted to a patriarchate from episcopacy due to the &#8220;a  unified church a unified state&#8221; motto of the Eastern Roman Empire and for  political reasons and that the St. Andrew myth was made up to justify this on  religious grounds. However it was a widely known fact that there is no document  indicating that St. Andrew had come to the city of Istanbul, since the city was  not even founded in year 30.&#8221;<span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com\/dc\/blank.html?bn=1358.27&amp;.intl=us&amp;.lang=en-US#_ftn1\">[1]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Moreover  it a weird contradiction that the Fener Greek Patriarchate is defined and  asserted as ecumenic only by those involved in power struggle in the region and  not by Orthodox countries and communities. Barthelomeos is consistently defined  as the leader of 300 million Orthodox. However it is quite interesting that  those who grant him the title &#8220;Ecumenic&#8221; are not Orthodox themselves.&#8221;<span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com\/dc\/blank.html?bn=1358.27&amp;.intl=us&amp;.lang=en-US#_ftn2\">[2]<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Apart  from the theological discussions, issues related to the contemporary practices  and demands of the Patriarchate also need to be unraveled:<\/p>\n<p>Is the  Fener Greek Patriarchate a national church or is it universal (ecumenic<span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com\/dc\/blank.html?bn=1358.27&amp;.intl=us&amp;.lang=en-US#_ftn3\">[3]<\/span>)?<\/p>\n<p>If it is  so, than why are the main churches subordinate to the Patriarchate are led only  by those of Greek origin? Why is the Fener Greek Patriarch, Jerusalem Patriarch,  French Metropolitan Bishop etc. are only chosen from among those of Greek  origin?<\/p>\n<p>What&#8217;s  more; &#8220;Why is the Fener Greek Patriarch is regarded as <strong>a national church even above the church in  Greece<\/strong>?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Why do  some Greek Metropolitan Bishops force into the churches of those from different  nationalities (eg. Bulgarian Church) and hold a sermon in Greek  language?<\/p>\n<p>And  other questions follow:<\/p>\n<p>Will  only those of Greek origin benefit from the Heybeliada Clergy School, great  efforts of which were shown in the establishment and which has become a source  of political pressure on Turkey? Will the Fener Greek Patriarchate, which has  authority over only 300 thousand people among 300 million Orthodox congregation,  consider the Orthodox congregation, which is dispersed to a vast area and which  is out of its control, as non-existent <strong>at the expense of creating duality in the  Orthodox world<\/strong>?<\/p>\n<p>It does  not seem possible for the Fener Greek Patriarchate &#8211; with its single-sided  demands and fait accompli &#8211; to reach a common solution neither with the Orthodox  world nor with Turkey unless reliable and logical answers are found to these  questions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sibel  Keskin<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong> sibelkeskin@yahoo.com<\/strong><\/p>\n<hr size=\"1\" \/><span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com\/dc\/blank.html?bn=1358.27&amp;.intl=us&amp;.lang=en-US#_ftnref1\">[1]<\/span> Gozde Kilic Yasin, Global  Religious Struggle, Cumhuriyet, July 14th, 2008.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com\/dc\/blank.html?bn=1358.27&amp;.intl=us&amp;.lang=en-US#_ftnref2\">[2]<\/span> Above-mentioned  article.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"removed_link\" title=\"http:\/\/us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com\/dc\/blank.html?bn=1358.27&amp;.intl=us&amp;.lang=en-US#_ftnref3\">[3]<\/span> The term ecumenic derives from  the Greek word &#8220;<em>oikoumeni<\/em>&#8220;, which  means universe, cosmos and world.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The basic mistake made when there is an unsolved problem or when a problem is left hanging, is going around the problem itself without trying to go down its essence and thus to the real answers. To put in other words the basic mistake is the inability to focus on the efforts to find the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":83,"featured_media":782149,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[1153,550,424],"class_list":["post-14540","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-politics","tag-racism","tag-social"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14540","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/83"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=14540"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14540\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/782149"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=14540"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=14540"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.turkishnews.com\/en\/content\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=14540"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}